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January 13th, 2010
06:45 am
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smirnoffmule: My bingo playing friends approved this message - Obviously, there are legitimate instances where it's relevant to cite an opinion or anecdote that was told to you by a gay friend, and these are usually clear in context. Where it becomes a tired and overused groan-inducing cliche is where a person starts to wheel out the fact that they have gay friends as evidence that they are either a) definitely right b) definitely qualified to speak on behalf of the queer community c) definitely very cool d) definitely not being offensive or e) definitely not homophobic. -
- eumelia: Hysteria, Buggery and Other Crimes of the Body - With that, one of the outcomes of people taking offence of the way RTD wrote homophobia and of people being very very sad indeed that Ianto and Jack are no more - a disturbing trend in Torchwood fandom, but also fandom at large, has been the appropriation of very Real Life Queer Issues Homophobia and conflating it with the ship that we like being over! -
- rozk: De gustibus and all that - It is a fallacy, I think, that any of us is going to like everything that is good, or everything with good aspects that other people like. It is a fallacy that there is any moral component to this - there are very few works of art that it is immoral to like and very few that are so glorious that to be blind to them is a moral failing. -
- quinara: What do you call it? - what do people in non-English-speaking fandom and indeed people in English-speaking fandom for whom English isn't their first language call (what apparently is properly referred to as) "fan fiction". Do you compound or not? Is it always a loan word or do you have your own terms -
- yhlee: untitled - But the reviews aren't for me. The reviewer is not obligated to lay things out for my convenience or tell me what I need to do better. -
- mresundance: Meta, Meta, Meta: Two Links - The problem for me, is that a lot of times, the reality of - hey, there are real gay people out there - is strangely absent from too much fan fiction and fan fiction discussions. Even if fan fiction sometimes helps me to feel less alien and less alone in the world, I find it disheartening when I feel my presence - or the presence of people like me - is subtly un-acknowledged or ignored. -
06:46 am
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oula: Tuesday, January 12th, 2010
- smirnoffmule: My bingo playing friends approved this message - Obviously, there are legitimate instances where it's relevant to cite an opinion or anecdote that was told to you by a gay friend, and these are usually clear in context. Where it becomes a tired and overused groan-inducing cliche is where a person starts to wheel out the fact that they have gay friends as evidence that they are either a) definitely right b) definitely qualified to speak on behalf of the queer community c) definitely very cool d) definitely not being offensive or e) definitely not homophobic. -
- eumelia: Hysteria, Buggery and Other Crimes of the Body - With that, one of the outcomes of people taking offence of the way RTD wrote homophobia and of people being very very sad indeed that Ianto and Jack are no more - a disturbing trend in Torchwood fandom, but also fandom at large, has been the appropriation of very Real Life Queer Issues Homophobia and conflating it with the ship that we like being over! -
- rozk: De gustibus and all that - It is a fallacy, I think, that any of us is going to like everything that is good, or everything with good aspects that other people like. It is a fallacy that there is any moral component to this - there are very few works of art that it is immoral to like and very few that are so glorious that to be blind to them is a moral failing. -
- quinara: What do you call it? - what do people in non-English-speaking fandom and indeed people in English-speaking fandom for whom English isn't their first language call (what apparently is properly referred to as) "fan fiction". Do you compound or not? Is it always a loan word or do you have your own terms -
- yhlee: untitled - But the reviews aren't for me. The reviewer is not obligated to lay things out for my convenience or tell me what I need to do better. -
- mresundance: Meta, Meta, Meta: Two Links - The problem for me, is that a lot of times, the reality of - hey, there are real gay people out there - is strangely absent from too much fan fiction and fan fiction discussions. Even if fan fiction sometimes helps me to feel less alien and less alone in the world, I find it disheartening when I feel my presence - or the presence of people like me - is subtly un-acknowledged or ignored. -
05:23 pm
fairestcat: Wednesday, January 13, 2010
- jonquil: On Appropriation - As I see it, we have two separate populations, each with completely valid concerns, and each with a history of oppression. . . .Welcome to the kyriarchy. Both of groups people are right. -
- bookshop: "i know you care for him as much as i do." - But we can have all the hints that the characters are gay that we want! Look how progressive we are! Look how many gay-friendly words we use: "metrosexual!" "bromance!" "subtext!" And I AM SICK OF IT. I WANT THE REAL DEAL. -
- inverts: I'M GOIN' IN FOR THE KILLLLLLLLLLLLLL I'M DOIN' IT FOR A THRILLLLLLLLLLLLL - If the goal is to celebrate femininity, there are other ways to go about it, but the creator chose "sexy." Maybe he just did it so it would sell better, I don't care, the fact is that is the choice that was made. It wasn't made in a vacuum where there wasn't a history of accepted exploitation of women. -
- fan_eunice: Are you excited about festivids going live? - Festivids is a rare opportunity to do something we almost never get to do outside Vividcon. Collectively watch a wide variety of vids in one place at one time, many of which are in fandoms not our own. And if you've never experienced doing this, lemme tell you, IT IS AWESOME and you don't want to miss out.
But, Eunice, they are not my fandoms...why should I care and why should I watch? I can hear you asking it. Lucky for you I'm going to answer. Many reasons, let's list, shall we?
- vulgarweed: I don't even know if this is an unpopular fandom opinion or not. You tell me! - as far as I'm concerned, the villain in the comic is not Eric Kripke or anyone to do with the show--it's the husband, who exhibits abusive, controlling behavior. In what universe is it OK to tell another adult human that her TOTALLY HARMLESS hobby is unacceptable, and expect that she will obey your decree from on high? -
- tzikeh: Make sure you never miss new fanfiction: thumbtack! - Just like you can follow a discussion by using the thumbtack, or just follow responses to one comment by using the thumbtack, you can follow a single tag by using the thumbtack, too. -
- yuki_onna: A Book of One's Own - it's not actually the first best destiny of Everyone on Planet Earth to be a writer of fiction. Cultural commentary is important and valuable in and of itself, and some people need to, you know, read books and react to them. I know! Crazy! My reaction to culture would still be viable even if I couldn't string a denouement together with a duct tape, a wristwatch, and my Aunt Martha's wedding band. So would, and is, yours. -
- girliejones: Wait, what did you say? - Why would you ever refer to professional female writers that way? I've been trying to wrap my head around whether the reverse would ever happen. Noone would ever refer to writers like Jeff Vandermeer or Cory Doctorow or China Mieville as "boy writers". -
- cassiphone: More on Realms of Fantasy - It's about not understanding that making a big deal of having an all-female TOC could invite cynicism or scrutiny. It's about presenting the guidelines in a jokey way, with the implication that in order for this magazine to promote women, something has to be taken away from men [...]It's about how the use of patronising language (ladies, of course) can only hurt your cause, and challenge your credibility as an editor apparently interested in publishing female stories.//It's about that male gaze again. -
![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-syndicated.gif)
gwailowrite: How Do I Know If I'm Getting It Right? - Well, the first part of this is recognizing that if you are writing about a marginalized group (in this case, gay men) and you are not a part of that group (i.e., you're not a gay man), you can never know if you've gotten it "right" any more than you can get it 100% right. Why? Because there is no 100% right. -
- mothwing: Why can't we all just get alooooong? - the more I read about and by m/m writers, the less patience I have for these straight women (well, female and straight male M/M writers in general, to be honest) and their quest to write male-on-male porn or ~romance~ in peace. -
- logophilos: Apparently I've fucked up again - My remarks about gay male critics was not intended to be an iteration of the tone argument. That it comes across that way is my fault, and I apologise. Nonetheless, I don't resile from the point that some gay male critics have intermixed their concerns with some pretty crappy sexist remarks, and also characterised all m/m in a way which just is not accurate -
- logophilos: Pen names and pretend names - Very few male-named female authors writing gay romance or gay-charactered fiction have actually claimed to be male in their bios (Erastes was, until last year, a notable exception), so one could argue that there's no actual deception going on -- except that it's obvious the male names are in use to overcome questions of authenticity from their intended gay male audience, quite separately from literary merit. -
- the_shoshanna: what we mean when we say "I can't" - What exactly does the word "can't" mean in the sentence "I can't do X"? It seems to me that there are a number of different things that "can't" can mean, and that confusion or worse can and perhaps often does arise when its differing meanings are confused. -
- maryaminx: In which I rant. A lot. - Yup. Lesbians write slash. A lot of it. There are even scholarly articles about it, even though it apparently BOGGLES THE MIND of every gay man ever. Strangely, though, we seem to be left out of the debate. The straight chicks steamroll right over us with cries of "kawaii!" or "J2!!" and the gay dudes don't seem to see us. -
05:27 pm
fairestcat: Wednesday, January 13, 2010
- jonquil: On Appropriation - As I see it, we have two separate populations, each with completely valid concerns, and each with a history of oppression. . . .Welcome to the kyriarchy. Both of groups people are right. -
- bookshop: "i know you care for him as much as i do." - But we can have all the hints that the characters are gay that we want! Look how progressive we are! Look how many gay-friendly words we use: "metrosexual!" "bromance!" "subtext!" And I AM SICK OF IT. I WANT THE REAL DEAL. -
- inverts: I'M GOIN' IN FOR THE KILLLLLLLLLLLLLL I'M DOIN' IT FOR A THRILLLLLLLLLLLLL - If the goal is to celebrate femininity, there are other ways to go about it, but the creator chose "sexy." Maybe he just did it so it would sell better, I don't care, the fact is that is the choice that was made. It wasn't made in a vacuum where there wasn't a history of accepted exploitation of women. -
- fan_eunice: Are you excited about festivids going live? - Festivids is a rare opportunity to do something we almost never get to do outside Vividcon. Collectively watch a wide variety of vids in one place at one time, many of which are in fandoms not our own. And if you've never experienced doing this, lemme tell you, IT IS AWESOME and you don't want to miss out.
But, Eunice, they are not my fandoms...why should I care and why should I watch? I can hear you asking it. Lucky for you I'm going to answer. Many reasons, let's list, shall we?
- vulgarweed: I don't even know if this is an unpopular fandom opinion or not. You tell me! - as far as I'm concerned, the villain in the comic is not Eric Kripke or anyone to do with the show--it's the husband, who exhibits abusive, controlling behavior. In what universe is it OK to tell another adult human that her TOTALLY HARMLESS hobby is unacceptable, and expect that she will obey your decree from on high? -
- tzikeh: Make sure you never miss new fanfiction: thumbtack! - Just like you can follow a discussion by using the thumbtack, or just follow responses to one comment by using the thumbtack, you can follow a single tag by using the thumbtack, too. -
- yuki_onna: A Book of One's Own - it's not actually the first best destiny of Everyone on Planet Earth to be a writer of fiction. Cultural commentary is important and valuable in and of itself, and some people need to, you know, read books and react to them. I know! Crazy! My reaction to culture would still be viable even if I couldn't string a denouement together with a duct tape, a wristwatch, and my Aunt Martha's wedding band. So would, and is, yours. -
- girliejones: Wait, what did you say? - Why would you ever refer to professional female writers that way? I've been trying to wrap my head around whether the reverse would ever happen. Noone would ever refer to writers like Jeff Vandermeer or Cory Doctorow or China Mieville as "boy writers". -
- cassiphone: More on Realms of Fantasy - It's about not understanding that making a big deal of having an all-female TOC could invite cynicism or scrutiny. It's about presenting the guidelines in a jokey way, with the implication that in order for this magazine to promote women, something has to be taken away from men [...]It's about how the use of patronising language (ladies, of course) can only hurt your cause, and challenge your credibility as an editor apparently interested in publishing female stories.//It's about that male gaze again. -
- gwailowrite: How Do I Know If I'm Getting It Right? - Well, the first part of this is recognizing that if you are writing about a marginalized group (in this case, gay men) and you are not a part of that group (i.e., you're not a gay man), you can never know if you've gotten it "right" any more than you can get it 100% right. Why? Because there is no 100% right. -
- mothwing: Why can't we all just get alooooong? - the more I read about and by m/m writers, the less patience I have for these straight women (well, female and straight male M/M writers in general, to be honest) and their quest to write male-on-male porn or ~romance~ in peace. -
- logophilos: Apparently I've fucked up again - My remarks about gay male critics was not intended to be an iteration of the tone argument. That it comes across that way is my fault, and I apologise. Nonetheless, I don't resile from the point that some gay male critics have intermixed their concerns with some pretty crappy sexist remarks, and also characterised all m/m in a way which just is not accurate -
- logophilos: Pen names and pretend names - Very few male-named female authors writing gay romance or gay-charactered fiction have actually claimed to be male in their bios (Erastes was, until last year, a notable exception), so one could argue that there's no actual deception going on -- except that it's obvious the male names are in use to overcome questions of authenticity from their intended gay male audience, quite separately from literary merit. -
- the_shoshanna: what we mean when we say "I can't" - What exactly does the word "can't" mean in the sentence "I can't do X"? It seems to me that there are a number of different things that "can't" can mean, and that confusion or worse can and perhaps often does arise when its differing meanings are confused. -
- maryaminx: In which I rant. A lot. - Yup. Lesbians write slash. A lot of it. There are even scholarly articles about it, even though it apparently BOGGLES THE MIND of every gay man ever. Strangely, though, we seem to be left out of the debate. The straight chicks steamroll right over us with cries of "kawaii!" or "J2!!" and the gay dudes don't seem to see us. -
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oulangi.livejournal.com: Tuesday, January 12th, 2010