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Wed, Jun. 3rd, 2009, 12:29 am
countess-baltar.livejournal.com: Silenced by Dreamwidth...

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Wed, Jun. 3rd, 2009, 03:48 am
dysprositos.livejournal.com: Re: Silenced by Dreamwidth...

[E]ven the academics sympathetic to fan fiction admit a lot of it is based on "subversive" or "resistant" readings of the source text. In additional the "preferred" or "dominant" reading of the "resistant" reading is determined by the fan group. Now the academics waffle a bit here because they would really like to portray the fan reading as some sort of egalitarian process but given human nature there are hierarchies of "authority".

I think what you're saying here is that certain fan readings are more popular than others? (If not, ignore the rest of the comment. *g*)

Which is absolutely true--and which readings are more popular may also vary by community, so (to use examples from my first fandom) the Draco fans and the Snape fans will have radically different readings of Slytherin issues than will the people mostly busy fighting over whether Hermione should end up with Harry or Ron. And within each community, particular fanon is definitely privileged over other fanon (for instance, being more sympathetic to Slytherins tracks pretty clearly with seeing the Marauders and Fred and George Weasley as bullies rather than humorous pranksters).

So there are definitely hierarchies of acceptable readings--I certainly didn't mean to argue that that is not the case--but at the same time, there is the ethos among Pretty Princess Monsters Blargh that if you come up with a reading, share it, and we'll judge it based on the evidence. "That's an interesting idea" is just as likely to launch a dozen fics exploring it as is "OMG I totally agree with you!!!!" (Especially because some fic writers write fic sympathetic to a character or situation they don't like to explore their feelings about it and see if they can't talk themselves into it. Talking myself through Lily's situation as shown in DH flashbacks made me warm up to her considerably.)

And the fact that Pretty Princess Monsters Blargh are having these conversations at all is noteworthy. Scary Ponies Oh No will discuss things, too, but it always seems more focused on "what REALLY happened" (e.g., did Greedo shoot first?) than "what COULD have happened", as Pretty Princess Monsters Blargh often are (sweeping generalizations! lots of exceptions!). I commented to someone else that there does seem (again, to an outsider) to be a lot of vitriol splashing around whenever Scary Ponies Oh No argue over something, possibly because Scary Ponies Oh No culture seems to accept ONE canon, entirely subject to the whims of the PTB, so which hastily fanwanked explanation for a plot hole gets accepted is a Major Deal. Among Pretty Princess Monsters Blargh, we're all used to picking and choosing our own canon to a certain extent, and we tend to accept the idea of personal fanon much more. "You don't think that's what happened? Write your own fic" isn't a response available to the Scary Ponies Oh No, because fanfiction isn't one of their culturally accepted activities.

So I'd argue that the Pretty Princess Monsters Blargh view of canon tends to be more meritocratic--not necessarily egalitarian precisely--to the point that actual canon can be considered "not canon" ("still waiting for the seventh Harry Potter book", Epilogue? What Epilogue?, and other forms of "I just like to pretend that never happened") by a perfectly rational fan. In comparison, Scary Ponies Oh No seem to have a much more top-down view of canon, wherein it is handed down from on high and only if you really dislike the creator will you disregard their canon. (*cough*George Lucas*cough*)

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Wed, Jun. 3rd, 2009, 04:16 am
dysprositos.livejournal.com: Re: Silenced by Dreamwidth...

Then there is the paradox in that if "the Author is dead" and texts are these independent things, why should the fanfic author expect their readers to "interrogate the [fanfic] text" from what they consider the "correct" perspective?

I don't believe I've ever encountered that opinion, sorry. I've seen a lot of the opposite opinion, i.e., if it didn't make it into the text, sorry, your intent doesn't really count for anything. Not so much of the "you're interrogating this fanfic from the wrong perspective!" except occasionally by people whining over people analyzing their fic and problematic racial or gender or whatever tropes in it (usually without either name or link to the original text so as to not cause a pile-on on the original author).

Could you give an example of this sort of attitude among Pretty Princess Monsters Blargh?

Why should the Pretty Princess Monsters Blargh care about the Scary Ponies Oh No interpreting the text using the "dominant" reading? Because the Scary Ponies Oh No are dupes of the evil "hegemony"? That Scary Ponies Oh No aren't capable of "analyzing" a text for "subtext"?

I don't particularly think we do. I mean, it's frustrating when you're trying to discuss, say, sexism in SGA or race in Doctor Who and the person you're trying to discuss it with keeps going on about how that wasn't the intent, why do you have to spoil their (his) fun, it's just a show, why do you care so much, why do you watch it if you don't like it, &c. It's even more frustrating when you're trying to discuss a problematic trope and people keep coming in and commenting just to tell you that they don't care. (If you don't care, get out of the way for the people who do!) But that's the same frustration anyone would have in the same situation.

Inasmuch as my post evinces some kind of caring on my part that Scary Ponies Oh No tend to interpret the text according to the dominant (PTB-approved) reading rather than any kind of more subversive reading even unto just seeing slashiness where it wasn't supposed to be--I certainly don't want to give the impression that I attach any kind of moral value to anyone's interpretation or interpretation style. There's a time and place for everything; certainly a community meant for squee and celebration of a text on the text's own terms is just as valid as a sporking community, or serious meta community, set up for the same text. All fannish reactions are acceptable! I do think there is value in examining texts critically, especially while paying attention to handling of race and sex and gender and so on, but such a reaction can and often does exist side-by-side with less critical reactions, and certainly not everyone has the (tea)spoons necessary to examine every piece of entertainment and pop culture the media sling our way. Gods know I owe every piece of my readings of Harry Potter to the smarter people at Snapedom, on Snapecast, on Harry Potter For Grown-Ups, and elsewhere around HP fandom and Snape fandom in particular.

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Wed, Jun. 3rd, 2009, 04:16 am
dysprositos.livejournal.com: Re: Silenced by Dreamwidth...

So just to make it utterly clear: my descriptions of the differences I've observed between the Pretty Princess Monsters Blargh and Scary Ponies Oh No are meant to be exactly that, descriptions. Obviously I prefer the Pretty Princess Monsters Blargh way of doing things overall, or I would (~still) be a Scary Pony Oh No. And there are differences between the groups that I think are objectively in favor of Pretty Princess Monsters Blargh (handling of issues like racism and sexism, a more diverse demographic), but there are also Scary Ponies Oh No things that I wish Pretty Princess Monsters Blargh had more of. (Support of, and commercial catering to, our interests and activities from the PTB would be nice, as would a stronger support system in place for those who do want to move from fanfic writing to being a professionally-published original-fiction writer.)

Anyway, if my attempts at describing some of the differences I've observed between Scary Ponies Oh No and Pretty Princess Monsters Blargh are at all giving off the vibe of the Scary Ponies Oh No are dupes of the evil "hegemony" or Scary Ponies Oh No aren't capable of "analyzing" a text for "subtext", I apologize. There are several Scary Ponies Oh No whom I greatly admire, and many more whose thoughts in particular cases I admire, including David Brin's positing of the "this is propaganda for the 'good guys'" with respect to Star Wars and Lord of the Rings in two essays where I first encountered the idea, which certainly indicate that Scary Ponies Oh No and analysis can get together and beat up any evil hegemonies out there.

Guess what? This Scary Pony Oh No doesn't agree with most of this stuff, particularly since it seems rather like Orwell's 1984 Newspeak.

Well, I don't agree with most of it either. Attaching moral judgments to reading styles = plusungood. Totalitarian dichotomies allowing no room for exceptions = doubleplusungood. ;-)

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